Let’s talk about how geography shaped the San Diego underground. Rockin’ Dog Dave Ellison cogently observed that San Diego “was big enough that you had enough like-minded, creative kids from different parts of the city coming together to start bands and play shows together … but small enough for musicians and bands to have a sense of community.” Our gatherings brought together eclectic pockets of North County, downtown and inland musicianship; every exit on the freeway seemed to point to a different little scene.
From my perch in Encinitas, Hair Theatre represented the underground’s Carlsbad-Oceanside bloc; the Rockin’ Dogs proved Poway was cooler than I knew; and each high school downtown seemed to have allotted a special smoking wall to a smart, edgy, aesthetically acute fringe element.
How do you map San Diego music ca. 1980-85? Where were the epicenters, and where were you?
The music and people in our scene(s) greatly expanded my experience of San Diego County. I mainly hung out in San Diego before I met everyone. I starting hanging out regularly with north county folks like Sergio, Joe Palmer, Howard Palmer, Margarat, Janie, Jim Pearson, Barry Walker, Mathew, Dana, Tammy, Carol, Dennis Dean, Deanna Dean and so on. I started hanging out with east county folks like David Dick, Larry, Chris Gast, Mike Province (thanks Bobo), Shanda, John Nowell and so forth.
Every weekend the Swapp sisters knew about at least one party, somewhere in the vast region that is S.D. County. We’d crash anybody’s party. One unusual one was a Goth (I don’t think they called it that then)/skinhead party. The “dark and hairys” got along real well with the skins, the latter of which formed a somewhat intimidating ring around the keg. One party had all these gay kids, male and female, on acid mostly huddled together in one room with expressions on their faces that ranged from anxiety to blissful absorption with the present. Another one we got to late and the people throwing it weren’t letting anybody in because the skinheads had showed up and they didn’t want their place to get trashed. Some skins started jumping this tall fence they had, so Sergio and I jumped it too. We still hadn’t gotten in when CRASH, one of the skins threw a chair through this huge window in protest of being shut out.
Wild party stories would be another good thread.
La Jolla had it going on, having nurtured both Manual Scan and Ratt. Sad to say, Ratt was a few years older (a large gap at the time), so I don’t think these two ever shared a bill.
I was seriously jealous of the much more varied and vibrant of the doings in Claremont. As a outsider, I didn’t know all the players, but from what I heard from Dave Fleminger, it sounded like there was an interesting culture of people doing their own tapes and videos (and of course, this was long before ProTools and Handycams). Someone more in the know should go off on all the doings- Bay Signs Underground!
Spot-on, Paul: There always seemed to be these parties that would bring together sub-scenes I never knew about and might never encounter again.
I remember going to one party in ’83 with Jerry, Dave Fleminger and maybe a couple other in the Answers crew when they were at the absolute height of their Carnaby Street retro splendor. In delightful contrast, this was a rockabilly gathering crowded with people — maybe a year or two older than us — who lived inland a few miles (Lemon Grove?) and were duded up to the most exacting 1950s standards. The vibe was benign, the aesthetic was precise, and I never really figured out where all these people were keeping themselves!
I mean, I knew the Paladins and some other folk with an affinity for the genre, but this was like some weird ’50s flash-mob in numbers I’d never imagined. Anybody else have a better line on the migratory patterns of SD’s rockabilly cats and kitties ca. 1983? (Here are a couple of leads.)
Matthew, that’s funny…because I had a similar experience around the same time. I was with Dave Rinck, his girlfriend Lisa and some other people and we ended up at a party somewhere where everyone was into rockabilly. There was a bad rockabily band playing in the living room with people dancing. I think some of the Morlocks were there too. I remember thinking the same thing…where’d all these people come from?
In the 90s, of course, there was a huge rockabilly/swing scene in San Diego. In fact, that’s ALL there was…but in the 80s it seemed pretty strange.
It might have been another function of the scatter pattern of subcultures across San Diego County — or maybe the preservative effects of the mild climate — but some of these San Diego scenelets seemed to have a more rigorous curatorial eye for period authenticity than any other music scenes I’ve ever encountered. (Guys my age who grew up in other locales are always astounded at my tales of SD’s pitch-perfect retro revivals.)
Wasn’t there a recording studio somewhere in the county that prided itself in using only equipment from the 1950s or earlier, down to the last tube? And I believe that some of our musical colleagues felt the same way about keeping their equipment strictly pre-1967.
I always felt like such a slob by comparison … I’d just play or wear anything that was lying around, it seemed! But it was a blast watching this kaleidoscope of musical microenvironments spin past.
In other notes: When did we start using the term “goth”? Wikipedia cites an article in the British press that employed the sobriquet in February 1981 … I know we were throwing it around by 1985, when I was working in the kitchen of the Encinitas Pannikin under a big poster of Siouxsie Sioux that manager Carol Anderson forbade us from throwing knives at.
And Paul Kaufman: Raaaaatt! Dave Fleminger recalls that his first gig ever was playing a party with the younger brother of Ratt guitarist Mickey Ratt.
Matt: What a diplomatic, generous way to describe it: “a rigorous curatorial eye for period authenticity”! That “purist” mentally some of us wore so proudly in those days was legendary for its intolerance. There were such strict rules about what was cool in regards to musical instruments and sound equipment, clothing and shoes, hair style and length, coolness of boots, musical tastes, etc. And you were, of course, expected to try to convert others to the “cool” way of looking at the world. Kind of like “Beat Scientology.”
The L. Ron Hubbard of this mentality is without a doubt Ron Silva, whose achievements are staggering. The honorable mentions go to Mike Stax, Audrey Moorehead, Peter Miesner, myself, Keith Fisher, Shelly Ganz of the Unclaimed, Dean Curtis, Missy Showalter, Carl Rusk, Mark Neil, Dave from the Paladins, Tim from the Bedbreakers, Gig from the Hooligans, etc.
It was a colossal waste of energy, but, funnily enough, it is authenticity in look and sound that distinguishes San Diego in many music circles.
As far as rockabilly goes, it was pretty much all mixed up with the early San Diego Skeleton Club musicians--the Penetrators, Evasions, Crawdaddys, the Unknowns, and later, the Paladins, but I always remember there being rockabilly guys hanging out at mod shows, at the T-Birds or Penetrators, punks shows, etc. There just wasn’t much for a rocker to do in such a mod town until the late eighties when the Paladins started playing. Then they came completely out of nowhere. In 1988 and 1989 when I was playing in the Town Criers (with Dave Ellison and Mark Z and Dave Klowden) swing dancers would be at every show. For a while it seemed like every girl in San Diego wanted to look like Bettie Page.
What a dork! I transposed the Paladins several years forward, into the early ’80s. Ray is of course correct that they didn’t exist when we attended this 1983 party.
I recall some North County punks put together a rockabilly band at the beginning of the ’80s and called themselves the Anarch-Cats (spelling?), which I always thought was the slammin’-est rockabilly name ever.
On the topic of geography, by an unfortunate chain of events I was forced to spend my tenth grade year in Ramona. It was such a vacuum of style and culture that as soon as Charlie Grant and I saw that Playboy (or was it rolling stone?) with the article on the punks involved with the filming of the decline I immediately shaved my hair super short, bleached it and donned a really tacky pair of beatle boots I found in my dad’s closet. Charlie picked the lone thrift store there clean of cool retro shirts and we were off and running. We even got a free specials album and squeeze-argy bargy from the one record store there at the time- the guy gave them to us because he couldn’t sell them. Aside from a couple college age apartment dwelling extroverts high on speed recanting the brilliance of the tubes, I’d have to guess that Charlie Grant and myself get the dubious honor of being Ramona’s first punks.
It was a relief to move back to my mom’s place and walk through PB and find that there was a growing punk scene going on there. Had I have been more clued in I would have headed up to North Park straight off.
http://home01.wxs.nl/~thepaladins/us_thepaladins_thomas_001.html
“Twenty years ago, Thomas Yearsley and Dave Gonzalez founded an amazingly gutsy, unpretentious roots/rockabilly band called the Paladins.”
From the page information:
“Page last modified: Sunday, November 30, 2003 12:29:52 AM”
I’m fairly certain the Paladins began around 83.
Toby: That’s a shame, since “Ramona” always seemed like such an awesome name for a punk-rock epicenter!
HA! I told you it didn’t like posting URLs!
Paladins:
Already together by the time of the Cramps show with TTH at the California Theatre -- in 85. Why I know that? ‘Cos that same week, Ivy was looking to get in touch with Whitney -- from the Paladins -- she thought I might have his phone number. She coulda probably just called Tim Maze -- who’d of had it for sure!
Ivy wanted to buy a big Dreadnought or Country Gentleman that he was selling. She’d had hers go “under a truck” earlier in that tour.
A kind of weird scene. A day or two after the show, I’m bumming round the San Diego Comic Con -- and Lux & Ivy are looking through french comics from the ’70’s, and the brand new “Mr. X.”
Aside from knowing all kinds of folks around the Con, I had no time for comics or that stuff since I was 15. It was a breath of fresh air -- if the presence of Lux Interior can be described thusly -- to see them there.
the Paladins were around before that. We played with them at a party in 1982, when Scott Nichols and Jim Meisland were in the band. At that time they were a four piece band…the singer and rhythm guitarist was named Whitney. At that time they had a more low-volume sound, leaning to the country side of rockabilly. They broke up for a while, I think, and reformed as a more Stevie Ray Vaughn influenced bluesy bar band with less of a rockabilly sound and loads more volume (The guitar player played through TWO cranked Bassman amps on stage).
Those guys were probably in their early 20s at that time…which means they’re probably in their mid to late 40s by now.
You know I think it was you (Dave) that I originally heard about the Paladins from.
hXXp://www.enotes.com/contemporary-musicians/paladins-biography
Members include Whit Broadly (group member, c. 1978-83), guitar; Scott Campbell (group member, c. 1983-90), drums; Brian Fahey (group member, c. 1990-96, 1999), drums; Gus Griffin (group member, c. 1978-83), drums; Dave Gonzalez, vocals, lead guitar; Joey Jazdzewski (group member, c. 1997-2000), upright bass; Thomas Yearsley (group member, c. 1978-97, 2001), vocals, upright bass.
Formed as high school quartet in San Diego, CA, 1978; first recording, a cover of “Lonesome Train” by Johnny Burnette & the Rock ‘n’ Roll Trio, appeared on the Who’s Listening compilation for Government Records, 1982; their own song “Double Datin'” included on the Rhino compilation Best of L.A. Rockabilly, 1983; released single “Slippin’ In” b/w “Honky Tonk All Night” on producer Mark Neil’s Swingin’ label, 1985; released debut album, The Paladins, on Wrestler, 1987; recorded for the Chicago-based blues label Alligator, 1988-90; signed with Sector 2 records, 1994; recorded for the punk-gothic label 4AD, 1996; recorded for German-based Ruf Records, 1999-2001; released “El Matador” on Lux Records, 2003.
Addresses: Record companies—Alligator Records, P.O. Box 60234, Chicago, IL 60660, website: http://www.alligator.com. Ruf Records America, 162 N. 8th St., Kenilworth, NJ 07033, phone: (908) 653-9700, fax: (908) 653-9702, e-mail: intuneoffice@aol.com. Website—The Paladins Official Website: http://www.thepaladins.net. E-mail—thepaladins@hotmail.com.
He hated our music, not us personally. That was just him being funny of course… I had to laugh.
Whitney’s girlfriend at the time was Pete English’s sister Elaine. She actually did hate us personally, because Sam and Cole apparentely left a bunch of annoying messages on Tim Mays’ answering machine saying that they wanted to to play at some show he was putting on. She told me this story at that same party, and I explained that it happened after I’d left the band. I guess she didn’t believe me, because years later she was still telling people I was a “jerk.” haha… whatevah…
Oh Shit- it just dawned on me that I saw- and met- the Paladins at a small party at Fernando Toro’s dad’s place in (Del Mar? Solana?) That was around 83, when Joel (our guitarist) and I were running around with Fernando a bit.
Now that I’ve dwelt upon it a bit and shook loose some of the barnacles I’m thinking Thomas Yearsley’s brother might have been Matt Yearsley from Encinitas, though I’m relying on a very rusty memory to conjure up even that. I did shoot off an email to Max from manifest Destiny in Puerto Vallarta- he (and John Murray somewhere near Pataya, Thailand) have a lot of the North County details stored in their heads.
The Paladins are an elusive outfit. Are they still performing? It’s very difficult to find an address of any kind for them.
82. Not 83. Definitely 82.
Max cleared up my Yearsley sibling question:
Matt Yearsly , younger brother of Tom the bass player in the Palidens , cool dude , decent drummer played with him in Screamin Seaman and Los Ricardos in 1990.
Toby--damn straight about the barnacles. Guess those eighties are more of a blur than I thought. I remembered the Palladins really blowing up in the late 80s, but now that I think about it, Dave was sort of a godfather to a lot of younger players earlier on.
I grew up with Whitney (Dave Broadley, I think his name was?) grew up around the corner from me and our little sisters were best friends. He was always a cool, funny guy.
That studio Matt’s talking about has to have been Mark Neil’s “Swinging Studio,” which was in a house in Dulzura, then El Cajon, and is now called “Soil of the South.”
Now Dulzura in the early eighties- there’s an urban center with a huge punk scene!
My dad lived in Dulzura for a few years from 1973-76 or so, after his house in crest burned down in that huge fire in 70 (71?)I spent a few summers out there as a kid. I saw a Puma out there once, and some of the biggest rattlesnakes I’ve ever seen. I went back once about ten years later and there were all these estates with mansions- what I refer to as coke castles. When I was there there was the house up at Barret Lake where the Sheriff lived, Waddell’s Trailer Park, Our house and a couple others, John Dawson’s place (of the Dawson outhouse fame) and the Barrett Lake Cafe. And of course Campo and Tecate.
We used to hike the aqueduct there- you could walk for like ten miles mostly underground, popping out to fresh air every couple hundred yards. There was also an old mine with a cable swing that went from Barrett lake road across the creek to the mine entrance -- supposedly the miners were trapped inside in a cave in and never recovered.
MRAT Nee just definitively confirmed my vague memory that Tom Yearsley went to San Dieguito HS with us … It’s weird how I remember the Paladins well and I believe I could count the rock-‘n’-roll fringe at San Dieguito on one hand, but I don’t remember him!
Karl Irving just sent along this note: “They were here in DC a few years back, at a great underground club called Kingpin with a band room of about 400 square feet with no stage (unfortunately not yet back from the dead following a fire two years ago), and they were as rocking as EVER. I promised a bunch of friends who didn’t know them at all a grand show, and not a single person was disappointed in the slightest. Yearsley stood on the side of his bass the whole 90 minutes—these guys aren’t slowing down a bit.”
I tried to imagine the abdominal muscles required to ride a contrabass for 90 minutes, but then I had to go lie down.
Heard about this site through Jason Seibert of Poway. Thought I’d give some history on east county the home of Rock writer Lester Bangs, Unarus foundation, Gull Wing Trucks,Witch covens, outlaw biker gangs( Mongols,Hells Angels) and lots of white trash. If anyone traveled to El Cajon they might of had the pleasure of stopping at the Rainbow Inn, a crappy motor court at El cajon blvd. and Johnson street. Around 83′ the place was a non-stop party. Some of the crew who lived there where Brent and Leslie( Brent was stabbed and died at a party I believe by Kevin Sweeney), Elaine Heath, Lisa Bulkin, Dave Rink(I always thought it was Rank, He didn’t really live there but Lisa being his gal pal at the time you often heard the rumble of his latetest cool bike).If my memeory serves me correct that year cranked out(pun intended) so many high jinks, the majority instigated by Dave Rink himself. I met and reconected with so many people from the SD scene during that period. SDSH would hang out there before and after BOS shows, a stress fest every time.I some memory left and quite fondly recall lots of people Brymo and Jeanie,Scott Clasby, Dan (USMC), Paul Allen, Dave Dick, Ted Freidman,Jerry Cornelious,Sammy Dog(he showed me how to play “Ballroom Blitz” on Bass) , Paul Lockhart,Todd Lahman,Early Wallflower dudes Paul Howland, Marky Mullen, Tommy Clark,Wow the List goes on and on.Enough shaking loose the cobwebs of my brain. Shout out to my SF peeps( I believe that’s what the kids are saying these days) Pat Works, Dave Fleminger, Paul Allen, Dave Ellison, Matt Rothenberg,Jeremiah Cornelius. Sorry for the long brain fart there but as for the formation of scenes in San Diego I attribute it the clique notion of ” birds of a feather flock together” even if we flew in a fractal formation. Good job on the site, I hope to chime in as memory and time serve me, sorry If I left some names out, If you knew me in the day, the chemical gods led the way and I rarely gave out my last name due to certain affiliations I had. Oh saw Tim Maze on TV the other Day weird.
Take Care all
Larry Halterman
Larry Halterman
Larry, bubby! How have you been? Welcome!!
Wow, how’d I miss Larry’s post? Hey Larry.
>>>> If anyone traveled to El Cajon they might of had the pleasure of stopping at the Rainbow Inn, a crappy motor court at El cajon blvd. and Johnson street.
This was the place I mentioned in another thread. I remember hanging out there with you and Chris Gast…I know I spent the night on the couch there once. Did Chris live there also? and Lisa Bulkan lived in the garage that she made into a bedroom for a while, didnt she? I also remember a really young kid (I think his name was Paul) who was always over there.
Tom, the Paladins had a much lighter sound around 1982. They were still a four-piece then, with a lower volume rockabilly sound. Their drummer played more like a swing/ jazz drummer. When they became a three piece, they got loud blues rock drummer…and I think the guitar player was going through TWO Bassmans at once, fully cranked.
Dave Ellison, the really young kid was probably “Little Paul” Lima. He and his older brother Ricky were at the forefront of the S.D. punks scene in the early ’80s, which found Paul singing with the Skullbusters at a very young age. He now owns GP motorcycles downtown.
Actually It was Paul Lockhart ,I think His older brother was Jeff( I think) but he did seem to know everyone in the SD scene
Oh yeah, Paul was cool. His older brother was Keith. Jeff’s other half.
Keith that’s right . I believe the had a band called Friends of Ghosts
Back to my inquiry about the rise of “goth” in SD: Here’s a funny story by Jay Allen Sanford about Christian goths in San Diego that offers a brief chronology of SD’s goth hotspots:
“Musically, goth culture coalesced with the minor-chord melancholy of 80s bands like Joy Division, The Cure, Fields of the Nephilim, Sisters Of Mercy and Siouxsie And The Banshees.
“Back then, the darkly dressed in San Diego congregated at now defunct venues such as The Skeleton Club, the original downtown Soma and clubs like Stratus and SubNation. In the late 90s, the place to be pale was Crocodile Rock, which regularly held goth-themed events like Soil, Savage Garden and Seventh Chamber.”
The Skeleton Club speaks for itself, and I think I remember Stratus. The rest of these gothic cathedrals are unknown to me.
Do any of our new additions have insights about when our local dark-and-scaries started using the term “goth”?
I remember being referred to as a “Death Rocker” by my cohorts in the Denver punk rock scene. It suited me. Then a couple years later (’86), in Italy, the term was “Darks”.
Where are the Chula Vista peeps at?
I went to Chula High and I was into stuff like Gary Numan and the Police. The school was so conservitive that people used to call me a punk just for listening to that.
I remember Kevin Chanel wrote a scathing review of AC/DC in the school paper and most of the school wanted to kill him.
I got introduced to underground music by my little brother and some guys I worked with at Fedmart. They also had gone to CVHS for the music school magnet program they had.
I thought these guys were crazy as they lived in the Riverbottom area of the South bay; that place used to scare me.
Little did I know that I would be living in City Heights in a few years, a far worse place!
I think it was 85 -- 86 that Bob used to have shows in his back yard recording studio. Holy shit it would get hot in there, but man you were right there next to the band. Those were some good times.
He had a record store called Vinyl Communications in CV. I think it was his store, memory is cloudy after all these years.
The South Bay had a thriving scene with lots of Mods and Punks.
Yes I did buy a record or two from “Bart the Mod” at Licorice Pizza.
If I would have grown up some place else I may have turned out differently, who knows I may have been into Hair Metal?
People on Facebook are reporting that Tom Yearsley, original Paladins bassist, was badly injured by a train. There seems to be a call for donations to assist with his recovery.
Does anybody have more info on what happened or how to help, for those who are interested in doing so?
http://www.10news.com/news/24669294/detail.html
This article indicates that he was trying (unsuccessfully, alas) to save his dog. It also says that he’ll be out of the hospital soon. Nothing there on how to help, but there is mention of a fundraiser gig being planned.
>>This article indicates that he was trying (unsuccessfully, alas) to save his dog. It also says that he’ll be out of the hospital soon. Nothing there on how to help, but there is mention of a fundraiser gig being planned.
Simon: Thanks for the link … How sad! Anybody on here have more info on fund-raising efforts?
Here’s a site to help Thomas Yearsley.
>>So did I miss the point of the article? lol
Carl: Not at all! It’s an open discussion, and there’s a lot to your perception that stuff got more schismatic — sometimes violently — as the early ’80s progressed.
But San Diego County is three times the size of Rhode Island, and (especially for those of us too young to drive!), I think there was a lot of reliance on the local cool kids to spread the word through far-flung communities.
And while we might have turned away to a greater or lesser degree on the norms of our local neighborhoods in favor of another identity, I do think we were shaped in some ways by the little spots where we grew up. A ton of the people here are from Poway, and they share some history (even in rejection of Powaygianousness) that I don’t.
I honestly don’t recall if I’ve ever been to Poway! 🙂
Matt: That’s why I mentioned the 3 main record stores, because in those days that’s how you found out about shows. Luckily North Country had Lou’s Records.
My girlfriend at that time 81-84 was from Poway (she had just moved to North Park when we started going out), her and her younger sister were both punks. She used to tell me how dedicated you had to be, to be a punk living there. And I’m sure it must have been even tougher to have a band there. I dont remember there being a whole lot of big shows up there, though there were some good shows for the few that La Paloma Theater had. Other then that I think there were only a few other places going on in North Country Distillery East & West. I remember there was an all day show with a bunch a bands off of Black Mountain Rd. which of course North County’s Manifest Destiny headlined.
Larry Halterman: Wow, haven’t heard of some of those names in a while! Lot of history there, both good and bad.