Ray Brandes is not only a San Diego musical treasure in his own right; he’s also established himself as a remarkable curator of our musical history.
Ray’s recent biographies of the Penetrators, the Unknowns, the Crawdaddys and the Zeros, among others, are unprecedented for their depth, narrative clarity, and comprehensive work with the original musicians and other key sources.
Other contributors to Che Underground: The Blog have added more pieces to the puzzle, with posts on formative bands such as 5051, Claude Coma and the IVs, and the Injections.
So I want to know: What San Diego band was the first to command your attention? It’s one thing to admire rock stars in magazines and albums or on visits from LA or points beyond … something very different to see a band from your own town who makes you feel a part of something.
When did local music gel for you? Was there one party or performance or practice where the light bulb came on?
Me first:
1. Serious answer that doesn’t embarrass me is the Penetrators. I think the first time I saw them was early 1979 at Escondido’s always ridiculous Distillery East … But they totally transcended their environment — just hypnotic! I was about 13. And really, truly, that’s when I said, “Yeah! Cool stuff’s happening right here. I can play cool, original stuff, too.”
2. Honest, embarrassing ancillary answer: A few months earlier, I sat on the bleachers in the San Dieguito gym for our welcome-back freshman (the only dance I ever attended in high school, besides one gig my own band played years later and the much-discussed Penetrators/Unknowns appearance). I sure wasn’t going to ask anyone to dance — scary!!
There was a cover band a couple years older than me; they played “Rock and Roll” by Led Zeppelin, and the singer and guitarist were having some sort of fight (guitarist trying to horn in on vocals), so the singer threw down his mic and ran out of the gym. I was pretty impressed … Not by the music, but by guys my age playing out and getting in a fight onstage and the whole shebang.
3. Another revelation a couple years later: 5051 and the Executives demonstrated local people my age could make a record, which was cool.
12th grade English….Myself, John Hanrattie, David Klowden, Terry Friedman and Annie Sadjera all in the same corner of the room. I was a Pink Floyd fanatic and David insisted that I go see the Answers at the Headquarters (they played Lucifer Sam). I went with my fellow band members of The Nodes, and was very impressed with not only the band, but also the enigmatic Jeff supposedly being broken out of the psych ward just to play his heartbreaking songs.
The next band, or maybe the next time I saw the Answers at Headquarters had the Crawdaddies on the bill….and after seeing them I was altered permanently.
Eric: Indeed, the Answers were revelation #4 — March 1983. I was a big boy by then — just turned 18! — and had been to a lot of shows and played out in my own first band before meeting Kristin and getting Noise 292 started.
And wow! The Answers were on the specific wavelength I’d been trying to tune into. (Yeah, their “Lucifer Sam” flipped my wig, too.)
OK. Three early SD shows come to mind, not local. Maybe someone can fill in the dates for me???
Police, (almost unknown at this point), somewhere in PB. AMAZING show. Never heard a three-piece sound that good before. Andy Summers, amazing guitar, Stewart Copeland, magical drums, no one had heard of this “sting” fellow yet…just a front man.
Mink Deville/Nick Lowe/Elvis Costello, somewhere downtown. Elvis was so green and raw. Much harder than you would think. He blew the roof off that dump…changed my way of thinking about music.
Clash, somewhere downtown. Show shut down, (SDPD protect and serve), after just a few songs…it was crazy!!
all had to be around 1978??
Local shows.
My first was Parrot World at BackDoor. Any info??
Probably second show was Dinettes at 1st Skeleton Club. They did a massive version of Wild Thing. That night was a turning point. Lou and I, and my sweet L____ from Ann Arbor. Lou and I dressed like clockwork Orange and L____ was Little Bo-Peep. October, Halloween ’77,’78??
We made an impression. Some years later some local “cool” people from the “scene” couldn’t believe that those two “assholes” at the Dinettes gig were us!!!!!
Were Elvis Costello and the Attractions at Civic Center Auditorium? I saw a couple of early shows there, 79-ish. Bruce, I think that that were one of ’em.
Local bands? C’mon!
The Crawdaddys and The Unknowns. Same period. In ’80, the Crawdaddys added Keith and had a “guitar of the week” seat. They played continuous frat-party gigs at state, that year.
The Penetrators and The Evasions were close seconds for me at the time. I became snobbish and spurned both, later. Stupid. Both had outstanding guitar players. But kids I went to school with had “Currently in Currency” playing alongside Cheap Trick.
Eric,
I remember the time you first turned up at the Che! With the Draney’s? Right?
Uhh… I remember you thinking I was “Captain Stern”. Weird. 🙂
Funny Jerry, I don’t remember that. My first impression of you was kind of a “plain Jane” with a very calm demeanor (hardy har har).
Incandescence — on:
Chris Davies (from the Penetrators) had a band called the T-Birds, they played at my Junior High graduation party. They did a great high-energy mix of classics and rockin’ power pop. Chris had a Fender Strat with a built-in “stratoblaster” overdrive preamp and he just tore through the tunes…they used to play at this underage club in a mall at the end of Clairemont Mesa Blvd near 163. And then I found out there was this ‘other’ band he was playing in…!!
Man we were so lucky to have players of that caliber performing at underage clubs.
Crawdaddies (1st album lineup) at the Roxy (’79??). Magic.
First experience of total timewarp and I didn’t wanna go back to the future.
Unknowns, lunchtime in the Clairemont High auditorium, ’80. Yes.
Don’t laff but I was impressed with the PD5 when they played at my school in 8th grade…didn’t like the material (the songs, not the polyester) all that much at the time but they actually sounded like the records and were really grooving it up.
>>Don’t laff but I was impressed with the PD5 when they played at my school in 8th grade…didn’t like the material (the songs, not the polyester) all that much at the time but they actually sounded like the records and were really grooving it up.
Dave: I’d never laugh … The power of plugging in electric guitars and, like, having a whole drum kit — anybody who did that was automatically cool at that age!
Man, my friends from Milwaukee and I ginned up some funny gear before we got amps … Other people here must’ve rigged up the family stereo as a de facto PA system?
I think I told before that when I was eight and living in this small town way upstate NY, I heard this one 10-year-old had a drum kit — I took the classical guitar I’d been meaning to learn and went to the town’s one aging guitar teacher and told him at Lesson One that I was in a hurry, I had this drummer and I needed to learn to play like the Beatles! (He handed me the Mel Bay beginner book — no “Lucy in the Sky” in there, alas.)
>>>My first was Parrot World at BackDoor. Any info??
Parrot World played one of the first shows I ever saw also… it was at USIU college. They played with a band called the Toykos, who had an e.p. they’d put out themselves (on red vinyl!). They were handing out copies, so of course I got one. They were trying to be a punk band, but I don’t know how well they accomplished that. Since that time I’ve only met one other person who’d ever even heard of them. I’m pretty sure both the Tokyos and Parrot World were local bands. I remember Parrot World as being more arty.
I can’t remember exactly when I started hanging out and meeting people, but it was probably when the Crawdaddys used to play at the International Blend when I was a senior in high school… around 1982.
>>>Chris Davies (from the Penetrators) had a band called the T-Birds, they played at my Junior High graduation party.
The T-birds played at my high school too, at lunch time. That might have been my favorite day in my entire high school career… ha. I think Chris Davies may have been even better in that band, because he had more room to play lead guitar. I remember them playing Suffragette City and an original song that had long pauses in the middle.
AND I remember the drummer had a pink drum set with black musical notes all over it. A pink drum set looked REALLY radical at that time, nowadays it would probably not look very strange.
>>Man we were so lucky to have players of that caliber performing at underage clubs.
Dave Fleminger: Totally. Do kids anywhere nowadays get this kind of access to listen to (let alone play!) live music? SDPD was generally a drag, and some club owners were jerks … But we did have venues.
Bruce/Dave Ellison: Any band called “Parrot World” is OK with me! 🙂
Drummers! Does any other aspiring guitarist remember how totally COOL it was to play with someone with a real drum set? Those kids usually had some space to play, too … So it was, like, shiny, cool hardware; real rockin’ sound; AND a practice space!
Oh! And I remember when one of my wealthiest friends got, like, the first ARP synthesizer for the consumer market. It was — wow, I think it was about $2,500 in 1977! — and monophonic, but you could totally tinker with all the settings to make it sound like anything.
I was ultimately more of a primitive in my musical leanings … but that toy WAS pretty neat.
1982
all day mod show
kings road
dr no
tami show and
crawdads
5/23/80
The Puppies, The Crawdaddys, The Unknowns, North Park Lions Club
Hint: It was not The Puppies!
I had completely forgotten about the T-Birds! I loved that band too.
First show w/non-local bands that changed my life: 999 and The Dickies at Montezuma Hall in March ’80. After that I was schooled in real rock ‘n roll 101 seeing Iggy at the Roxy and The Ramones at Montezuma Hall, both in April ’80.
BTW, I think the first time I saw The Penetrators may have been at that Iggy Pop show at the Roxy.
I wanna hear what local guys Gary Heffern was inspired by! And Harold Gee, Gary Ra’chac … Any of the guys who were watching music in SD in the late ’60s and early ’70s.
The Glory Band? The Brain Police? Who were the cool bands that inspired the San Diego guys who inspired us?
Parrot World! Parrot World!
Dave it may have been the same show! How cool…had to be ’78 at the latest though. I thought it was at SDSU??
“Bruce/Dave Ellison: Any band called “Parrot World” is OK with me!” 🙂
Matt…I know.
What was that first record store BTW?? Monty Rockers?? Off the Record??
A navy guy brought me there and I left with some Stranglers, Bonzo Dog Band, Plastic Bertrand…..man, that guy was way ahead of the curve.
It was all Zeppelin, Floyd, Cheap Trick, and Aerosmith before this.
( ok.. a little Dead Boys, Lou, Iggy, too…)
Jeremiah -- yeah, that might have been the venue, but I thought he (Elvis Costello), was still playing with LA studio musicians then??
Could be wrong….
Mink DeVille was great. What ever happened to that cool cat??
>>Mink DeVille was great. What ever happened to that cool cat??
Uhhhh … He passed away last month. 🙁
>>”Mink DeVille was a house band at CBGB, the historic New York City nightclub where punk rock was born in the mid-1970s”
Glad Wickipedia noted that.
Thanks for the heads-up Matt.
Tim Mays….obviously, and Laura Fraser and another person who I had uge respect for was Steve Esmedina…the writer for the Reader at the time…man that guy got so much shit threatened all the time by people because he was considered mainstream press…I remember asking him why do you keep putting yourself in this position, and his answer was beautiful…I’ll always remember the twinkle in his eyes as he said “I love music, and what people forget when they gt mad at me is so simple…it’s just one mans opinion” Strong words and stronger conviction…I had upmost repect for him. If anyone out there has the reader article about him thatcame out posthumousy, I would love to get a copy of it. Steve Moore and Harlan, Louie….the list goes on.
no age limit
5051
roosters
crawdaddies
later mind-blowers I saw once were too many to name, but I remember an Addicts show at Carpenters’ Hall that blew my mind
house parties were always the best
didn’t the PD5 singer eat his gun?
Patrick Works
Lookin’ for a ukulele guru
I also remember getting out of lockup and getting into a Gang of 4 show at Adams Ave Theater that same night for free…
At times it was not so much the actual music or the band, but rather the moment that formed the new synapses.
I seem to remember that show being a mind-blower. I was not a fan at all, but they were amazing that night. Perhaps it’s just ’cause I was in custody earlier that day and just felt very free………………….
I was also stone-cold sober due to my previous commitment. Always helps.
Patrick Works
No Longer Uses an Alias
Well put Patrick.
“At times it was not so much the actual music or the band, but rather the moment that formed the new synapses.”
I don’t remember very many shows, or bands…just moments. I think I only went to the shows I was actually playing in for the most part.
I didn’t have to go to PENS shows, I lived with (some of?) them.
The parties after the shows were something else altogether!
Anyone here go to the Injections/Bow Wow Wow show???…Adams Ave maybe??? It’s all a blurr…except for how good BWW’s drummer was!
>>didn’t the PD5 singer eat his gun?
Patrick: So the legend goes … But I have completely failed to find a bio of this group online. Anybody?
2 more shows that shined a light on me:
Dead Kennedys, July 4th (oh yeah!) 1980(?) North Park Lions Club
I like short songs I like short songs I like short songs
Dick Dale, Penetrators, Unknowns 1981(?) Golden Hall
Felt like I was witnessing the continuum of surfy guitar rock, the best of the best in the West…I know I’ve ranted on this blog about that particular show before but I’m ranting again and will continue to rant..
The PD5 singer story is an urban legend. They are all still alive and kicking, although presumably they have replaced their nightsticks with canes.
Here’s a PD5 news segment and update:
http://www.youtube.com/?v=_lVl8lDwkGU
I’d be interested in knowing how many kids were influenced to play rock and roll by seeing the PD5. I remember them playing at Toler Elementary School, but they didn’t have much of an impact on me. I think that even as a kid I appreciated the irony of rock and roll cops.
>>I’d be interested in knowing how many kids were influenced to play rock and roll by seeing the PD5.
I never had the privilege … At a certain age — let’s say pre-junior high — anybody holding an electric guitar would’ve impressed me!
I was a cautious kid, but if some guys with electric guitars (and maybe Roger McGuinn specs) had asked me to get into a white van in the early ’70s … I dunno, it woulda been a tough call. “Shiny!”
>>Anyone here go to the Injections/Bow Wow Wow show???
I forget … In 1980, was it permissible to acknowledge that Annabella was really cute?
If not, forget I said it. Black Flag Kills Ants on Contact!
Heff: I didn’t realize Steve Esmedina was no longer with us … I was just going to ask what became of him.
Um . . .Matt and Bruce: Wasn’t she about 14 then? It was certainly more appropriate in 1980 then it is now.
>>Um . . .Matt and Bruce: Wasn’t she about 14 then?
Ray: I was 15 myself!!! Sheesh. LOL
I was 17 then, so I guess it was okay for me too.
Annabella Lwin was born Oct. 31, 1966, and I was born Feb. 16, 1965 … That’s not too bad, izzit??
… Yeah, but Bruce has no excuse! (Except I think Malcolm McLaren passed her off as 18 at first.) 🙂
>>was born Feb. 16, 1965
Matt,
YOU could have been lead singer for Bow Wow Wow! Although I don’t think a skinny, bespectacled kid with curly hair would have projected the right image . . .
>>”Um . . .Matt and Bruce: Wasn’t she about 14 then? It was certainly more appropriate in 1980 then it is now.”
I was 21….What’s your point…perverts!!!! LOL
She was the one singing, “I want candy”….right??
at least one or two…..
nabakov was a nebbish nut
This topic’s turned into kind of a men’s lodge!
Those days are…priceless.
No, No…I just posted Paul AND Paula!
Also, it’s just a lodge with only guys posting! Our loss.
>>> and of course the tokyos and mature adults.
Gary, who was in the Tokyos? Did any of them go on to play in other bands? That band couldn’t have been around for very long.
Bruce, that show at USIU was probably the same show. I remember it was USIU because it was close to Poway, where I lived.
Tokyos/Mature Adults…same band.
Dave if you were at Parrot World in ’77-’78 but didn’t start “hanging out” until ’82 where were you??
Especially in THE year 1979!!
The two shows I saw that really made me want to play music were the Penetrators and the Standbys at the Backdoor in 1978, and the Ramones and 20/20 at Montezuma Hall… same year. That Penetrators show was the first show I ever went to… it made a big impression on me.
Bruce, I was 14 in ’78, so it almost impossible for me to get anywhere. Once I was old enough to drive I would go to shows with my friends from Poway, but we just kept to ourselves. Once I had a band of my own, I thought I’d better go out and meet people or we’d never be able to get any gigs!
Excuse my ignorance…what was the name of your band??
>>Excuse my ignorance…what was the name of your band??
Bruce: Dave Ellison is co-founder of our own Rockin’ Dogs (check out “Candy Rock” and “Back of Your Heart”!) and the Wild Desires. He also played with Ray Brandes in the Town Criers and contributed his marvelous songwriting and guitar work to the Blues Gangsters.
Actually, I was 14 in 1979, not ’78… I’m pretty sure those three shows I mentioned were in ’79.
>>Actually, I was 14 in 1979, not ’78… I’m pretty sure those three shows I mentioned were in ’79.
Yup, me ‘n’ Mr. Ellison were in the same transportation pickle. Unless the show was at La Paloma, I was totally at the mercy of my elders.
Around eighth or ninth grade, some friends and I started experimenting with taking buses out of Encinitas. What a nightmare! Big sheaf of connecting bus routes, one bus an hour or fewer in spots … I remember a day trip to the Wild Animal Park that ate 3.5 hours each way!
The first underground band I saw was at neighbor Sue Stoup’s party when the Crawdaddys played. A lot of punk rockers were in attendance, but I think this was before a punk rock uniform had developed. I think some leftover influence from The Rocky Horror Picture Show crowd still attained. It seemed more new wavy. Then there were the sixties suits. I was around 14 so this would have been around 1979. I got drunk and went home for a few minutes so I could put vaseline in my long hair so I could be more punky.
This scene didn’t really pull me in though. I stayed w/my Aerosmith/Led Zep/Bowie/B-52’s/Devo. In high school I started going to punk shows.
The local music scene didn’t really sear my brain until I saw the Answers w/Sergio on lead vocals for a few songs. The quality of the musicianship and singing, the reference to 60’s psychedelia without being a carbon copy (quite the contrary), a band that had no pretensions to stardom or latching on to the mainstream but also wasn’t in a contest to be the fastest and loudest -- it was a turning point. The moment where I went from loner/stoner to scenester.
And on equipment, I did blow my parents’ stereo once, playing guitar through it. It actually started smoking!
>>The Rocky Horror Picture Show crowd
I know we’re reaching pretty deep into the barrel here … But yeah, “Rocky Horror” contributed something to the ’70s subcultural churn. Somewhere on the intersection between theater geekery and New Wave …
Yeah, I never went although some local theaters played it for, like, ten years every Sat. night!!
Guess I was more of a Harold and Maude, Woody Allen, Leni Reifenstahl, Werner Herzog dude.
The Sorrow and the Pity……..
>>MATT ! Look at the second band down on the list. Shit, I think this is the wrong thread!!
We got some ‘pologizing to do!!
Still think the RULES you posted was the funniest thing yet on CHE.
Damn, which thread is this supposed to be on??????????
I know …how cool is this??
Feel bad now…I knew and played with all these bands at one time or another.
Lots of old memories haunting me.
The RULES OF THE BIG is still the funniest post yet!!
How come this thread “went away”??
The Rocky Horror Picture Show influence is not something I would have thought of myself. I remember Sue Stoup talking about how some people from the Rocky scene migrated to the punk scene. It was all before my time. I just remember a lot of people at her party looking pretty slick. They had more of the later post-punk, Souxsie-style look.
There were alot of Rocky Horror fans in the beginning that were at all the shows until the violence came into the picture. Also I’ve really enjoyed the article on Claude Coma, he was the sweetest person, so kind…and I’m so glad he/she is still around. When we played last time at the Casbah, I dedicated “there is a light” to folks who had passed on and included him on that list…I think Jim Call told me later that Claude was still with us. Another local guy that i used to hang out with along with Claude and his bandmates was a guy named Michael Page that was in the last version the New York Dolls in the 70’s and also played bass with iggy pop…I remember a story he told me about a thanksgiving dinner in iggy’s moms trailer with david bowie and iggy telling david to shut up because he was talking too much!!! Does anyone know whatever happened to him?
So I as on facebook, and saw post from someone thanking cliff cunningham for turning him onto great music and it just got me to thinking how important cliff was in the early days…i’m hoping that there is a cliff cunningham for the kids of this new generation!
that’s funny about the eulogy for claude coma….sad too though.
must’ve been one of those moments?
i do remember iggy inviting me into his party at the catamaran hotel after a show and then page kicking me out saying iggy didn’t invite me…..
this just after iggy had gone into his room to take a shower so he couldn’t vouch for me.
Thanks Matt -- I was being a little facetious, as I know how the Forum works!
I do miss the old format though.
The Local Heroes and Family Tree threads have been the best threads in a long time. We’re back to talking about local underground music history and the people that were and are there!
I feel like CHE has been re-invigorated!!
>>There were alot of Rocky Horror fans in the beginning that were at all the shows until the violence came into the picture.
Heff: That really does encapsulate my feeling about the early days, although I was just a tadpole — I made my entry into the scene through slightly older North County people who were also theater geeks. At the time, it felt real edgy and extreme in social attitudes but … kind of sweet, too, and accepting of lots of half-baked experiments. 🙂
I remember the first time I saw the pit at a show really dominated by a couple of big, muscular guys who were really slinging each other around with no apparent regard for the rest of the crowd. I was, like, “Uh-oh … The jocks have arrived!”
I’ve compared that transition — San Diego meatheads embracing “punk” — to the last paragraph of “Animal Farm”:
I don’t mean to be prissy about it — SD always was a tough town, and to some extent, the danger was one reason we still tell the stories!
And the scene had to grow a tough shell by nature of the aggression it faced from police and a whole range of potentially violent local haters.
And my memories from ages 12 or 13 are undoubtedly gauzy and candy-colored (and very incomplete, given my limited mobility to shows and parties and such).
But … I still feel like something weird happened early in the ’80s, when the SD punk scene kinda assimilated the rough stuff in a new way … Unironically.
Thinking out loud here: Lots of the early tough guys seemed more self-aware and kind of … wry … about their role as heavies. (Toby has explored this at times on the blog.) At a certain point, that got lost; the whole thing got not only more violent but just really mundane.
… Yikes! I don’t know if I’m making a lick of sense! LOL … Anybody understand where I’m going with this? Does this gibe at all with your memories? 🙂
Don’t know where you’re going, but I agree.
SD had a very scary, violent scene. I think there were too many groups coming together all at once. So many people came to shows FOR the violence. SDPD were like Gestapo. OB was off limits to “punks”…worth your life going there.
Don’t know where this is going but it’s an important part of the history of the SD scene…and maybe a bit unique??
Again with the caveat: I was too young and too peripheral to glean these nuances … So please don’t take my line of questioning wrong — I honestly don’t know the sequence … But was Marc Rude a local paradigm-setter for punk tough guy?
I’m not saying that Rude was a sponsor of serious violence. It’s just that some of the older guys who’ve visited here have referred to a little apprehension when he arrived in town — a reputation the preceded him and maybe prompted some wariness by the earliest local punk-rocker contingent about this spiky NY guy and his in-your-face FONO armband sort of approach.
We’ve had some tales of early summit meetings between the Penetrator household and Marc Rude. I don’t know how much was embellished, but it seems there was an awareness that it would be better to have Marc as a friend than a foe.
I might be way off base … I’d like to learn more, though!
PS: I just came up with a better adjective for what I’m postulating about the Marc Rude factor: “Confrontational.”
Is it fair to say that Rude pioneered a more confrontational approach to SD punk’s outsider status, both with his art and with his organizational savvy?
“At a certain point, that got lost; the whole thing got not only more violent but just really mundane.”
I think the first time I saw trashing of a place it was at the germs show at NPLC, and it was done by their friends…I think as far as violence by the SD folks, it started after the filming of Decline as alot of SD people were in the audience for th FEAR show…once the violence started, there was no middle ground…it was really sad to see, and I know alot of people were angry with us (the penetrators) because we called them on the bullshit, and had to seperate ourselves…in other words violence against cops/bouncers okay..violence against each other not okay. I could never figure out why people couldn’t see the jock mentality…time after time I would see kids get picked on, and then a few weeks later they were part of the pack. the worst i saw was at uk subs and it was san diego versus LA man, people ust shut their eyes and started swinging I remember jarhead and testi in the middle of this one, and mad marc (actually, it was the first time I saw him fight as he general just stared stuff.) I think GBH was on the bill as well.
Marc and I didn’t see eye to eye on alot of things especially the violence…but there were other things that we later jelled on (we were both hanging out with johnny thunders moments before he got arrsted at th bachannal…Ill leave it at that) which was shortly before I moved to seatte, I loved Marc but he became a carrricature of himself and that was sad to see.
whew…enough already!!!!
>>whew…enough already!!!!
Heff: At risk of fawning, this stuff’s gold to me. Having you guys I looked up very much to when I was very young take the time to put the pieces together … Wow, I’m really grateful!
I was too shy to ask these questions as a kid — at 15, who wants to risk getting branded a poser, right? Now I’m willing to stick my neck out, and it’s just really satisfying to get answers!
Thanks to you and everybody else who actually knew wtf was going on while I was still just wandering around in awe of it all. LOL
>>Arthur J and the Gold Cups
Heff: OK, this is wild stuff I never knew … I of course Googled this band and found a history of its relationship to the Masque in LA.
In the course of reading that piece, I learned that the Masque was the joint creation of a fella named Brendan Mullen — and Al Hansen, who happens to have been a significant figure in the Fluxus performance-art movement, an acquaintance of my dad’s … and the grandfather of Beck.
BTW, while I guess that technically you joined the Penetrators, it’s obvious you had a tremendous influence in shaping that nascent band … Looking at your oeuvre, it’s hard for me to picture you tailoring your approach to fit into someone else’s project. (Correct me if I’m wrong!)
I understand that feeling of embarrassment — I’ve tried a few times to adapt to something that other musicians have created and choked completely. (“Crawled out of there” is a perfect description.) The simple fact is, many of us just aren’t built like that.
I have huge admiration for folks who do have a touch of chameleon DNA … But I have equal admiration for those who are superb at following their own vision exclusively. I sure know I’m in the latter camp!
Gary, what you’re saying about Darby was my first thought when you said the Rocky Horror fans left the punk scene when it got violent. I know a lot of gay people went to Rocky Horror (I remember Kristin Martin’s mom, Judy, saying a lot of lesbians hung out in the bathroom at the Roxy). I can see a gay person in 70’s/80’s San Diego seeing the violence and saying to themselves, “Here we go again”.
Ditto Matthew, it’s really cool having someone put the pieces together here. My memory of the Penetrators is seeing their name in the Reader at clubs I had trouble getting to, and hearing Walk the Beat and Sensitive Boy on the radio. The Penetrators came to talk to my San Diego High School TV production class. They said Gary couldn’t make it because he was even more hung over than they were. One of the few times I played a Tim Maze show with Hair Theatre, we were bumped down the roster last minute by Gary doing his poetry. (Waaah)
Gary, you wanted to know what happened to Michael Page. He’s in San Diego still, working for a company that converts film, video and stills into a cutting-edge 3D format. He’s profiled along with a lot of other musicians throughout San Diego’s history in this article: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/bands/2008/jun/26/when-scott-wilson-was-glam-plus-iggy-pop-bassist-g/ His Reader bio is here: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/bands/michael-page/ and his company’s contact info is here: http://www.passmorelab.com/home2008.html
FONO attached themselves to the Injections early on. I think, in general, they created as much violence as they stopped.
Being on the right side of FONO felt good, though. They never let anything happen to lou or I, but we could have been on the wrong side just as easily!!
FONO, TM, Exterminators, Nutronz,….we were all on the same “side”.
I’m not sure what that represented…some of us were just musicians in bands…other had some agenda.
wow…thanks paul for the link…he looks GREAT! also I saw the tell tale hearts at the casbah on on of my trips own south…and I probably we you an apology for bad poetry what was tim thinking???
and I bid you all good night!
Good piece Clay. I believe he was necessary and did infuse the scene with a needed element of “angst”.
For a lot of us, we didn’t eat, breath, and sleep punk. I barely went to any shows and listened to more ENO and Bob Marley in those days than anything else.
A lot of us that were actually making the music weren’t really making the social culture, it was made around us…
MATT -- Don’t know how to bring “Our Family Tree” back. Doesn’t work in SEARCH???
>>MATT – Don’t know how to bring “Our Family Tree” back. Doesn’t work in SEARCH???
Bruce: Here is the “Our family tree” thread.
I found it by typing “Our family tree” into the Search box and hitting the Search button. Then I clicked on “Older entries” until I found the “Our family tree” entry, at the top of Page 4 of results. (All the words were highlighted in red.)
We will be working on implementing the enhanced search … But in the meantime, yes, headlines and keywords in posts are searchable.
is there a reason why all recent posts don’t appear in All Recent Posts column?
it would seem Our Family Tree would be there since it was active only earlier today.
an enhanced search shouldn’t be required for something so current,
i wouldn’t think?!?!?
There you go..thinking again Clay!
>>is there a reason why all recent posts don’t appear in All Recent Posts column?
it would seem Our Family Tree would be there since it was active only earlier today.
Clay: In the basic blog configuration, “Recent Posts” are the latest headlined items added to the blog, not comments that are appended to older posts.
There may be ways to customize this view using add-on technology … But with limited resources, we have to take it a step at a time. We’ve finally moved the blog onto the current version of the WordPress software, so we’re in better position than we were a couple weeks ago to look at current enhancements. None of it’s effortless, though.
Better search should be available soon. After that, we’ll see what we can do about displaying recent comments in a richer way.
I was at the Bow Wow Wow show I just remember how much energy she had she was great if you watch her now VH1 or whatever not too much running around, can’t imagine why. The two concerts that got me into the scene were the Clash at Golden Hall and Fear at the Skeleton Club.
Hi Bee -- I saw the same Clash and Fear shows as you, and played with Bow Wow Wow.
They were kind of mean, arrogant, and wanted us to set up on the floor instead of the stage. I can’t remember but I think we eventually played on (the edge of) the stage!
I still don’t know who got us the BWW show. Tim Mays, Laura Frasier, Gene King????????
10/10/79 The Clash, Rubber City Rebels, the Standbys, Golden Hall
Was this the Clash show that was impossibly loud? My ears hurt for about two days. I remembering peeing the next day and it sounded like the phone was ringing.
I only saw the Clash once, downtown, and the cops closed it down after just a few songs.
The fans pulled Mick Jones off the stage by his guitar chord and everyone started ripping the chairs out of the floor to make a dance pit.
Yes, Bruce that’s the one… I remember the ensuing scuffle after Mick was pulled off the stage and Joe saying “he’s just trying to do his job.” The house lights were on for the entire show… My memory is spotty and fallible but I think there was anti-punk graffiti outside of the venue that night (or some sort of palpable anti-punk sentiment).
I found a post below from a guy who can vouch for the volume…
http://www.nkvdrecords.com/clash.htm
” I saw the Clash live only once, on the tour to promote London Calling, and I’m sorry to say it wasn’t the revelation that Clash shows are often described to be. The band played an old theatre in downtown San Diego (might have been Golden Hall), and they were so loud that I couldn’t stay in the hall – in seeing hundreds of bands throughout the years, this was the only show ever where I went outside the hall because the band was too loud (I’ve left plenty because the band was horrible!). The sound was just a tearing, screaming mess, and sadly that’s obscured most of my memories of the show beyond the occasional glimpse of Paul Simonen with his bass slung impossibly low to the ground, Mick Jones cavorting about the stage, and Strummer in the middle with his body contorted and neck muscles stretched taut as he rasped into the mike – spit flying with every phrase.”
COOL…we were at the same show!
>>”The sound was just a tearing, screaming mess”. Perfectly stated.
That was one bad show, but glad to be there and witness the Clash at their hardest!!
>>”Paul Simonen with his bass slung impossibly low to the ground”.
Yeah that was a cool, an impossible, way to play the bass, huh??
I remember reading a review in “Be My Friend” where Bow Wow Wow were described as, er… not being too nice to the crowd as well. Hurling insults about class distinction and complaining.
Again, I wasn’t there. But hey, I read the review! To think she was a few months younger than me.
Of course, “Be My Friend” would have negatively reviewed Bow Wow Wow if they were dicks to us, (Injections), since it was written by Lou’s BFF at the time, TM!
But they were dicks anyway you look at it. Then again, they were just kids on the verge of “making it”, which they never really did.
Sue Trouser…wtf ever happened to Sue?
if we’re talking sue of the dinettes she’s married to harpo and can be found playing keyboards for Patrons Of The Moon.
If you know Sue, is it possible to get more information on our bass player Lisa? They were bandmates in the Dinette days.
Does the “Trouser” moniker refer to the Trowsers with Joyce Rooks and Jerry Turetzky and some other peeps I don’t remember? They were real nice and let us use their bass amp sometimes at the Che.
Wow, this has been an amazing thread to soak up the juices on, per se…been real busy and I haven’t stopped by in a spell. I’m glad I checked in on this one!
By the way, Gary, it is great to see you here at the Che Undrground opening up and sharing your War Stories of Punk Years Gone By. etween Bruce andLou of The Injectetions, Clay of Men of Clay, our self and my younger counterparts, there is some rich hiostory being swpped like spit here!
Heff, did you and The Penetrators open for The B-52’s at The El Cortez Ballroom in 1979? If not…does anyone out there know who did? The Unknowns? Men of Clay? I’m curious…and I have an itch now, to fill that little black hole in that memory box of mine.
Please…somebody throw me a bone and admit you were there, too!
>>”Rich history being swapped like spit”!
I really like that description Kristi…I love the history and memories too.
I thought I saw B-52s at a School for the Blind/Deaf?? My girlfriend was with Tony from FONO that night and someone hit her in the face with an M-80. Big riot…again.
Anyone remember the venue?? year?? 1979??
It might have been 86 or 87. I had moved here from the Midwest. Somehow, I met through a friend of a friend of a friend, I met KC (friends with SST bands- originally from LA). Met him at a show at the Spirit Club- I think it was a Leaving Trains show. Told him I wanted to play in a band and he leaned over and said that the guy behind us was looking for a drummer. I told him I couldn’t drum- did not matter and I was in the band (although kicked out on a weekly basis)- I had the chance to play with several local legends: Claude, Jim Call and Jeff Mattson (Crash Worship). I loved hearing about SD’s vibrant punk scene and the one night that I caught a glimpse of that was either the night before Thanksgiving or maybe Christmas (1987?). Show at the Spirit that I believe included Claude Coma and the IV’s, the Beat Farmers, Mojo and Skid and the legendary and wonderful the Penetrators. It was an amazing show- one of the best I have ever seen anywhere.
kristi…..MOC didn’t form til 1980 and we never played the el cortez so it couldn’t have been us
you don’t remember playing there.
what a trip that place was though.
i remember going there a number of times around 75-76….egad…..i now recall why punk became essential for our existence.
mcc…what about bob?
He still around somewhere?
He’s definitely one of my local heroes.
Patrick Works
Up Too Late
Satturlee (sp?!)
curious why he was a hero to you.
he apparently has little to say to me and has denied a facebook friendship request with me so your guess as good as mine…this man who used to sing and shout my words and hugh’s….
it’s odd what small injury it takes to keep old friends from even saying hi 25 years later.
more like 27 years later since i announced a gig we were on our way to performing in mexico would be men of clay’s last.
i would love to see bob or hugh or johnny or lisa or any of our numerous drummers come down and say hi.
i will say to this day i remain proud of what that band did in it’s 2 years on earth. as for bob he was a very eager and energetic front-man who gave the band a face which was unique but which people seemed able to identify with.
he always embraced the creative impulse of what the band were doing and ran with it….with gusto. in that sense he was a hero to me as were the others. we each in our very own human way had our weaknesses though and as a unit we had met our expiration date or so i was convinced. i wasn’t persuaded that punk was absolutely dead but it wasn’t exciting to me anymore and the doing of it in a scene which had grown toxic with constant violence for its own sake had become a thing of dread for me.
i wanted to make music but it had to sound different…it had to be different.
i’m sorry that this made me a bad guy to many…a sell-out etc.
sometimes you gotta toss everything in an effort and need to grow.
that’s what i did and i think everyone grew as a result.
no thanks needed……
but thanks to those who remember.
I saw the Clash at a later Golden Hall gig. The English Beat opened (which, in typical fashion, I missed). It was an interesting crowd. There were all these dudes with mean attitudes, wearing frilly clothes and eyeliner. I guess they were mods, but not the good-natured mods I was familiar with. The Clash played a short set, and one of the most intense, rocking, shows I have even seen. At one point Joe Strummer says “Is my imagination, or did someone just gob on the stage? If one more person gobs at us, we’re done for the night”. Apparently no one else spit at them because they continued to play.
the biggest shower of non-stop spit i ever saw was graciously foisted upon PIL at the olympic (i believe) coliseum. this lasted for almost as long as the biggest fight i’ve ever seen (at the same show) which lasted on and off for at least 40 minutes.
it was ugly to say the least….there was a battalion of about 50 -- 60 guys which divided the floor in half and went after any guy or group of guys who even looked at them wrong. things would explode and then die down and another group of maybe 10 or 20 guys would step up and it just went like that forever.
even rude was genuinely pleased we opted to forego the floor for a more bird’s-eye-view.
johnny remained covered under his hooded robe…..levine and wobble had no such protection….complained a bit but kept on playing.
it looked like hell-on-earth to me but i guess that’s what we payed to see….so we discovered.
>>”“Is my imagination, or did someone just gob on the stage? If one more person gobs at us, we’re done for the night”.
Was this, originally, an English or American phenomenon.
Our best “friends” gobbed at us when we were playing constantly!! Never thought to stop playing or complain.
Wonder when/where it started and when it ended????????
Yeah, Bruce, I am glad you like rich history being swapped like spit…i kinda dig that one, too!I better scratch that one-liner in my “one-off to remember” page in my diary!
Oh, so many thoughts, so little time!
Atill, nobody out there has the cahones to admit the saw the b-52’s at The Elcortez in 79? I was probably near the front of the stage, with a side ponytail, black leggings and a checkered something on…very dorky New Wave and all of 14-15 years of age, wide eyed and giggly! I probably did that skippy dance where one shuffled their feet, one in fron of the other, with a cute little twist in between!
I got me a chrysler and it seats about 20, so hurry up and bring your juke-box money!
>>Think how you would act if you went from 14 yr old nothing to international star before you graduated high school.
Kevin: As a parent, this indeed makes me shudder. I wonder what shape she’s in psychologically?
Have you seen interviews with her? She appears damaged. Remember, she was a has-been by 21.
Another Cindy Brady???????
I guess it’s a lot better to be a Never Was than a Has Been.
Sad. I need to pass that on to Max and John Murray.
Oh man…Brendon was such a nice person, me and Peter Case went and talked with him after he started Slash Records, about me signing with them, which didn’t end up happening but he was always such a gentleman…shit, this really bums me out.
I remember most the Mentors at blackies in Hollywood, the drummer pooped on his drumset. That was true genius for the time.
>>I remember most the Mentors at blackies in Hollywood, the drummer pooped on his drumset. That was true genius for the time.
Lou: People don’t appreciate how much rehearsal goes into “spontaneous” moments like that.
Beth, I hear you calling,
But I can’t come home tonight;
Me and the boys are pooping,
And we just can’t get it right …
I envy the roadie who got to clean that up! Sort of a cross between “Spinal Tap” and “Doctor Doolittle.”
MATT -- pooping on my favorite, lol, KISS song!!
>>”I envy the roadie who got to clean that up!”
What kind of bands have you played with?? ROADIES!!!!
oops, i got brendan mixed up with bob biggs…but would run into brendan at the club lingerie througout the years…and of course the masque.
Seeing some of those band names in the beginning of this, T-Birds, Snails, etc… I think I was around 16 (1979), I remember getting into punk about that time (thanks to Rachel Shadt who was in my class and turned me onto a Clash and Pretenders cassette as well as telling me about the Skeleton Club). I was from Point Loma and going to parties around there, where those bands usually played at meant getting hassled / fights with surfers back then.
Speaking of Point Loma, I think the Unknowns played at our High School once?
Gary: I think I remember going to see you guys (Penetrators) play at a show at Sea World (am i remembering correctly?)
yes we did play sea world for my mind is going blank, but someone who was running for president. I remember Rachael!
Gary,
That was a benefit for John Anderson for President, so it must have been 1980.
Carl,
Yeah, the Unknowns played with the Penetrators at PLHS in 1980.
Backing WAY up, “THE T-BIRDS”—Wow!! They were the first live music of any kind I had the pleasure(??) of witnessing. My next door neighbor Beth Lipman dressed me up in her “new wave” clothes [I was in 7th grade] and took me to some lame-ass Grossmont High School party which seemed to ME to be the coolest!
Next live music: Frampton @ The Sports Arena (cough cough gag…)
Third Time’s the Charm? Gary Numan @ The Fox Theater! Yay..
I didn’t start attending hall shows regularly ’til Jan. 1982, ’cause i’m YOUNGER than you’all…HAH! Still got mercilessly hazed for not showing up sooner (and for not being “hot”) even tho I was just 14!!
Sad but true, one of my first real dates was with my 8th grade sweetheart Steven Douglas…we double dated to The Frampton Show at The Sports Arena. I think the only reason that I thought Frampton was cool at all was because all the houses that I babysat at had “Framptom Live” in their record collections!
Frampton is cool
>>Frampton is cool
Frampton Skums Alive!
How is Claude? What is he doing? Where is he?